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10-15 13:17 - 'I've been working with institutions since leaving the mining side, and hands down Robleh is the most clued up guy from any corporate financial institution or government body i've met. The guy has gone above and beyond to...' by /u/bitcoin-o-rama removed from /r/Bitcoin within 44-49min

I've been working with institutions since leaving the mining side, and hands down Robleh is the most clued up guy from any corporate financial institution or government body i've met. The guy has gone above and beyond to get his head around Bitcoin. His papers are excellent and the reason the Bank of England are miles ahead of the US Fed and JP Morgan etc. I'd actually go as far to say he's the only person in corporate i've met so far that gets Bitcoin. He has a genuine interest in the subject. MiT media lab has done very well to get him and i'm super impressed that Robleh has bailed on fiat. It's a classic example of someone seeing the light, potential and not selling out their soul for a paycheck.
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A Closer Look at Ripple's Distribution of XRP

I consider myself to be an informed member of the XRP community. I have a Twitter feed of all the prominent personalities/researchers to keep tabs on the news. I watch the metrics on daily and even wrote a calculator to help understand what ODL is doing over time. I regularly check in on global metrics like volume, wallet openings, and the distribution of XRP within wallets.
Up until recently, if you asked me to explain how XRP is distributed out to the public, I would point you to two resources. The first is an article on XRPArcade explaining how Jed McCaleb's XRP sales are structured (not the topic of this post). The other place would be the XRP Markets Reports provided quarterly by Ripple. There you would understand that for the past year Ripple has increasingly slowed the sales of XRP and only is selling in small amounts to facilitate liquidity in markets. Based on this data, I've seen discussions on /cryptocurrency and elsewhere claiming that XRP's inflation rate is lower than Bitcoins and is near 0. Based on publicly provided data I've realized that this is not the case. XRP's distribution rate is very different than the impression painted by the XRP Markets Reports.
TLDR; Ripple is trying to paint a narrative that very little XRP is entering the market. In reality sales of XRP are very low, but XRP entering circulation remains much higher from an inflationary perspective and that rate has remained relatively unchanged from 2016 onward.
Before I dive into the data, I'd like to take a brief pause and state that in no way am I writing this to be FUD. Clear and accurate data is extremely important to me. Much of the recent community conversation has revolved around hopium and dot connecting that is unverified. It's a public ledger, but most people don't take the time to track the numbers. I'm hoping to shed more light on these important factors since there is no doubt that XRP's rate of distribution can effect the price. Ok, soapbox over.
I first was clued in that something was off while listening to a SamIAm video here. Basically Sam is calling out Ripple over their Q1 Markets Report because they didn't mention around $18 million of XRP paid to MoneyGram. Now technically this isn't a sale of XRP, but it's convenient to leave out and we would only know that this was happening because the SEC forced MoneyGram to report it on their Quarterly Investor Report.
Next I was scratching my head over a data discrepancy. Tether flipped XRP on LiveCoinWatch weeks before the other tracking sites like CoinGecko and CoinMarketCap. Upon closer inspection I realized that all these sites retrieve the XRP circulating supply from a single API call and LiveCoinWatch had coded their site incorrectly. They were pulling the XRP numbers from last year.
The API is here and anyone can checkout the data: I believe that there is a companion private API Ripple uses to power their pie chart here: Notice that the market performance (at the time of this posting) is for May 17th while the public API only goes to April. I don't know why Ripple hasn't updated the public API in a month. Since the public API has a history of postings you can go back and track the "distributed" tag all the way back to the middle of 2016. Here's what I found.
XRP Released into Circulation Yearly Inflationary Rate
2016 (starts mid year) 1,229,851,071 3.5%
2017 2,667,133,033 7.34%
2018 2,035,094,018 5.22%
2019 2,325,833,516 5.67%
2020 (May 1st) 773,689,933 1.78%
2020 End (at current rate) 2,321,069,799 5.35%
The 2016 data starts halfway through the year, so you can make an educated backfill guess for that year's number as well. Ripple has been distributing between 2 and 2.6 billion XRP a year with 2017 being a the high watermark. Interestingly the number distributed in 2019 is not that much different in spite of Ripple touting significantly reduced sales for almost the whole year.
So lets talk about the term "XRP Distributed" versus "XRP Sales" obviously Ripple is providing the data for both stats, but they only talk about sales in the markets reports. Distribution is a much wider term. It can include things like "Business Development" like MoneyGram discussed above. It could be compensation incentives given to Ripple employees. Xpring is known to fund investments using XRP. All of these items aren't reported because they are not sales. Even with some generous guesses to the above categories, I have no idea what Ripple is really doing with the XRP in 2020 if they're not selling it. Even factoring in about 90 million XRP given to MoneyGram, there's still a significant amount distributed and I would love some opinions on what they think Ripple is doing with this XRP.
Some takeaways for me:
submitted by RetirePerspired to Ripple [link] [comments]

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06-30 09:54 - ' contact?' (self.Bitcoin) by /u/dustywarrior removed from /r/Bitcoin within 1407-1417min

Hi all,
Does anybody know how to get hold of []1 ? On their website they just have a +48 number listed and nothing else (no email, no social media, nothing). Does anybody have any contact info for anybody there?
''' contact?
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Author: dustywarrior
1: *hi*coi*s.clu*
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submitted by removalbot to removalbot [link] [comments]

Are you struggling in making money online?

Check out how we make bitcoin here 🤑💰💵 Check the Withdraw proofs:
submitted by keithmalcom256 to MakeMoneyOnlineGuide [link] [comments]

5 Reasons why you should go for cryptocurrency

The global economy is inevitably moving towards a digital eco-system. From investment to money transfer, everything is going paperless.
The global economy is inevitably moving towards a digital eco-system. From investment to money transfer, everything is going paperless. The newest and most promising addition to the digital payment sector is cryptocurrency.
A cryptocurrency is a medium of exchange like normal currencies such as USD, but designed for the purpose of exchanging digital information. Cryptocurrency is defined by as a decentralized “digital or virtual currency that uses cryptography for security” making it difficult to counterfeit. Since it is not issued by a central authority, governments can’t take it away from you.
Over the last couple of years, digital currency has been rapidly gaining the public eye. Here are some good reasons behind it.
  1. Fraud-proof: When cryptocurrency is created, all confirmed transactions are stored in a public ledger. All identities of coin owners are encrypted to ensure the legitimacy of record keeping. Because the currency is decentralized, you own it. Neither government nor bank has any control over it.
  2. Identity Theft: The ledger ensures that all transactions between “digital wallets” can calculate an accurate balance. All transactions are checked to make sure that the coins used are owned by the current spender. This public ledger is also referred to as a “transaction blockchain”. Blockachain technology ensures secure digital transactions through encryption and “smart contracts” that make the entity virtually unhackable and void of fraud. With security like this, blockchain technology is poised to impact nearly every segment of our lives.
  3. Instant Settlement: Blockchain is the reason why cryptocurrency has any value. Ease of use is the reason why cryptocurrency is in high demand. All you need is a smart device, an internet connection and instantly you become your own bank making payments and money transfers.
  4. Accessible: There are over two billion people with access to the Internet who don't have rights to use to traditional exchange systems. These individuals are clued-in for the cryptocurrency market.
  5. You are the owner: There is no other electronic cash system in which your account is owned by you. How it started? Bitcoin was the first decentralized cryptocurrency introduced in 2009. Bitcoin uses the blockchain technology and has outperformed gold generating a 155% annualized gain over gold’s 6% annualized loss over the last 5 years. Its price in July 2010 at 0.06/coin USD is now worth over 4000.00/coin USD today, making it one of the biggest investment phenomenon in modern history. Since 2009 blockchain technology has gained momentum. Not only because of the tremendous spike in Bitcoin’s worth, but also through an increased awareness of its importance and greater trust among the investors. Recently, major banking institutions and technology companies such as Intel, Barclays or Walmart have invested their time and money into the promise of cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum. This has led to countries with weakening currencies to adopt digital currency to take the place of traditional notes that have depreciated. Some of these early adopter countries include Brazil, Colombia, Turkey and Venezuela. Wealthy countries are also exploring adopting cryptocurrency as legal tender. According to a report by Bloomberg, the central banks of Japan, European Union and Holland are currently conducting research projects and trials on digital currencies. India Impact
The cryptocurrency revolution is also spreading to India, where Prime Minister Narendra Modi has reduced circulation of cash bills to steer the country towards electronic payment ratification. The Reserve Bank of India is now looking into the newest wave of the future -- cryptocurrency. A year ago, the Indian government decided to take harsh measures against “black money”, funds earned on the black market on which income and other taxes have been evaded, and tax evasion by removing two of their highest value banknotes from circulation resulting in removing over 22 billion banknotes in circulation. As a result, citizens worried about losing their savings, switched to cryptocurrency to preserve their funds resulting in a trading volume spike of cryptocurrency. Since cryptocurrency is decentralized, Indian regulators are currently working on a legal framework regulating cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin as well as the central bank of India is developing their own blockchain resulting in its very own cryptocurrency that will be called “Lakshmi”. Blockchain technology has also enabled companies to change the way they operate digitally. Through Initial Coin offerings (ICOs) companies are offering their digital tokens for sale. While many companies raising funds through ICOs are unregulated and lack validity, companies such as 1World Online, an established Silicon Valley company, already have a working product.
The blockchain economy is worth more than 100 billion dollars to date and the future of its adoption is being championed by people around the world and companies, such as 1World Online, that are using tokens to enhance their platforms--and reward users. India, with its large base of consumers, engineers, and entrepreneurs, is poised to become a world leader as more and more blockchain participation, investment, development, and mining occurs within its borders. Are you ready to join the future of the online economy?
Feel free to contact for further enquiry.
submitted by anoukbonami to InvestmentEducation [link] [comments]

12-20 06:53 - '[link] Website' by /u/purple_carrot_ removed from /r/Bitcoin within 0-8min

[link]1 Website
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1: www***sminin*.clu*/
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12-04 15:34 - 'eToro / ​ / [[link]]' by /u/FastSellerService removed from /r/Bitcoin within 63-73min


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1: coin*elegr*p*.co*/*e*s/s*ven-pre*ier-l**gue**o***a*l-clu*s*sign-bitcoi*-**vertisin*-d*al**ith-etoro 2: co**t**egraph.c*m/ne***seven-pr*mier-le**ue-f*otball-cl**s**ig*-*itcoin-ad*ertisi*g**eal-*it*-e**ro]^^1
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Is bitcoin back?

I see bitcoin is beginning to serge again. Anyone on here clued up on crypto? I also read XRP has fantastic potential? Any advice would be welcome.
submitted by AHop4 to UKPersonalFinance [link] [comments]

AMA Summary

By popular demand, I've taken the automatically-generated transcript of the AMA video and broken it down to bullet points. Of course, this is not a word-for-word transcription and I've paraphrased a few things, so it's highly recommended you watch it for yourself:
Team Goals/Priorities – seen in current and future job postings
Coin accessibility
Project Apollo
Awareness about Aion (video choppy here)
Unity Economics
Building the next “Killer App”
Enterprise Ethereum Alliance
Awareness in developer communities
Java developer interest
Market position
Anthony “Pomp” Pompliano interview
(Video skipped)
Big Enterprises
Singularity University
Charles Hoskinson/IOHK/Cardano
Challenges as FoundeCEO
European presence
Value to Aion
Interoperability (part 2)
Thank you so much for being patient with us. Stay tuned for our weekly AMAs from different members of the team, community surveys, and these quarterly video AMAs. There's going to be a lot more information coming out of the project especially as we wrap up Unity.
submitted by a_toad_a_so to AionNetwork [link] [comments]

If I "work" for a reward site do I need to worry about taxes or laws?

To keep it short; I was just wondering if I could "work" for a reward site. I won't mention the site in question but today they said they were accepting applications for app testers for potential new games to be added as rewards. The payout for these testers will be in the form of points on the site which can be used to redeem a variety of giftcards (steam wallet, gta shark cards etc.) but also pre-paid mastercards, paypal and cryptocurrency. If I were to be accepted as an app-tester and withdrew paypal/crypto would I need to worry about taxes or laws or anything? I'm not very clued up on this kind of thing.
Also just a side question: is bitcoin taxable? Or would profits from cryptocurrency just fall under the PayE tax brackets?
submitted by DepressedMemeMaker to UKPersonalFinance [link] [comments]


RAKE HOLDERS submitted by QSMarketingCorp to BetTronLive [link] [comments]

Pretty sure some of my current health issues are due to taking Cipro 4 years ago

So I've recently had a bunch of tendons, muscles, and joints start bothering me at once, for no obvious reason(by this I mean clear physical injury, I have some thoughts on why this specifically happened now which I'll mention later), and upon researching what could cause this, and tests for RA and Lupus coming back negative, I stumbled upon FQ toxicitiy and remembered that I took a course of it 3 years and 9 months ago.

Here is a history of then to now

I had just gotten back from some international travel and had a fever that lasted several days in a row, coming and going. All fevers I remembered having prior went away completely once they had broken, and given the travel I was a bit concerned it could be some weird exotic illness or something. Now I had moved to a new state a few years before this, and I had gone to a PCP once or twice, but didn't have a long standing relationship with them, so instead of calling them and making an appointment I just went to a nearby urgent care clinic. I also googled what could cause a fever to come and go for several days and came across Kidney infections as a possible cause. At the urgent care place I think I asked about that, so even though my fever was minor and almost certainly viral, they decided to run a urine sample and they prescribed me a course of Cipro to take just in case while they waited for the results. I took it, the fever went away in the next day or two, and about a week later they messaged me saying the results came back negative and I could stop taking it, so I did. At the time I did not have any noticeable symptoms, so basically forgot about it.
However since then I've had the following symptoms, none of which I thought much off until the recent ones, but looking back, are a bit suspicious, although again until the recent ones they all have other possible explanations.
About maybe 9 months later I got a weird pain in my right wrist. I spend a lot of time using a mouse, so figured it was from that. It eventually went away on its own.
Around the same time I got a weird pain in my chest. Went to the doctor, and it was diagnosed as being caused by tight pecs. I've always been super inflexible everywhere, so that seemed reasonable. Went to a chiropractor to work on loosening it and did some stretching and it got a but better, but for a while still hurt when I laid on my side, which it still does sometimes intermittently.
My eye prescription had been stable before Cipro and has gotten worse every year since, but this could just be a coincidence.
I don't remember when this started happening, but I think it was after Cipro. My circulation is noticeably worse. When I sit on a toilet my legs often fall asleep after a couple minutes. Sitting on the ground leaning on my hands, my hands fall asleep too. Sometimes in the morning I wake up and my hands are numb even when I just sleep on my back with my hands at my side.
I don't do well with being cold and now sometimes need a sweatshirt when other people are fine without one if it's slightly chilly out.
I played volleyball once a week prior to Cipro, and continued to do so for 2 years after, at which point my shoulders started really bothering me when I would seem to repeatedly strain it a bit playing, specifically seemed to be bicep tendon mostly. Then I felt a strong pain when just reaching behind a shelf and stopped playing and went to doctor. Did physical therapy for this twice, which sort of helped, but I still get pain in the tendon sometimes, and when if I try to swim that aggravates it. Now obviously there was some repetitive stress/sports component to this, but I wonder if the Cipro weakened the tendon making it more likely to be injured and slowed down healing. Shortly after this I also got pain in my elbow, and then in my hand, which would tingle weirdly. Elbow specifically bothered me when using my phone in bed. This eventually receded mostly.
Around that same time, I started getting weird pain in my ribs, basically a single random rib would be painful for several days then get better. This happened like once a month for a while, but has gotten less and less frequent over time, and the duration has gotten shorted.
However 3 years post Cipro I injured my knees doing jump squats, as part of a routine to prepare for ski season. Landed weirdly, felt some pain, but then seemed fine, so kept going, landed weirdly again, more pain, then stopped. I actually don't think this is necessarily anything to do with the Cipro, more me being a dumbass, but the non knee symptoms that followed I think do. I seemed fine the next day, but over the following weeks my knees started bothering me a lot. Did some PT that made things worse, so I stopped. Also took some advil. Went to an orthopedic surgeon to get checked out, they thought it was tendonitis. Told me to do some specific exercises and recommended trying NSAIDs more consistently than I had with the advil and gave me a prescription for one and wanted me to try PT again, which at this point didn't make it worse but didn't make it better. I also lost a bunch of weight as I assumed that would help my knees, and this gave me the motivation to actually stick to eating better.
At some point, I think around the time I was taking the prescription NSAIDs, though I don't remember the exact timing of everything. I started getting weird symptoms unrelated to my knee, all of which have pretty much continued to this day. First my peroneal tendon started hurting for no apparent reason. Then just the bones in my foot and ankle started hurting, mostly when I was sitting down but sometimes when walking, seems to be effected by angle/position, but I haven't found the exact angle range that bothers it, and the location of the pain varies a lot. A few locations are more common, like the side round bone on the outside, and on the top of my foot basically in the middle right near but not inside the ankle, though it's often hard to pinpoint the exact location. My groin tendons, as well as inside the adductor muscle a bit bothers me, more so on the left but also a bit on the right. They actually started bothering my while doing a lot of leg raises to strengthen my quads to help the knee issue. They were aggravated further when I tried to use an exercise bike so I can't do that anymore now. Also my hamstring now has a painful to the touch spot, not sure if it's muscle or a tendon. My Achilles now hurts slightly or just tingles sometimes, weirdly mostly when I'm lying down, though occasionally when moving. The Achilles is what clued me in to the possible Cipro connection. My back has been bothering me intermittently a bit. A bunch of my joints and tendons now make weird popping and snapping noises with various movements, and my shoulder now has a grinding sensation with some movements that I don't remember being there even during the height of the previous shoulder injury. And my thumb now bothers me when using my phone a bit, and fingers sometimes when typing. My wrist started bothering me again, specifically it bothered me a shit ton when I tried to play Nintendo Switch in handheld mode. Doesn't bother me a ton day to day if I don't do that, but sometimes a bit. My elbow has started bothering me a bit after not doing so for a while.
Now most of these are individually mild, not nearly as as many of you, though I am worried that the snapping/popping is doing damage to my joints and will lead to arthritis, which I am also worried my ankle already is starting to develop with the bones randomly hurting. Plus the groin pain is preventing me from doing some things I would like to and I'm concerned stuff will just continue to get worse. However these symptoms seem pretty reminiscent of what many floxies seem to have, which is why I think that's probably at least partially the cause for some of them.
My thoughts on why the sudden onset of symptoms happened when they did is it could have been all the NSAIDs which I've red floxies can no longer take, could have been stress/inflammation from the knee injury, or could have been from stress on my body from the weightloss/a lack of some nutrition during said weightloss, or the timing could be coincidental and I would have had FQ symptoms show up then even without the knee injury.
I've started taking a multi vitamin, glutathione, mitoq, pqp, ala, and magnesium. And will try acupuncture soon. Am also considering active release technique message, and maybe looking into prp injections in some of my tendons.
Also I eventually saw a different ortho for a second opinion regarding the knee injury, and they thought it was something called Plica syndrome, especially after my knee tendons looked normal under ultrasound. They also actually took a look inside one of my knees with a device that is similar to an arthroscope, but smaller so less invasive, though it still hurt for a few days after, and could see a Plica that looked fairly inflamed, and didn't see any cartilage issues in the knee, so there is some credence to that diagnosis, and recommended I have the Plica removed surgically since the symptoms didn't get better after a fair amount of PT. However my knee symptoms, while they haven't gone away, have lessened a bunch recently(after the last time I saw the ortho so this hadn't happened yet when they recommended surgery), and at this point I don't know how much of them are from the injury, or how much may be from whatever is causing the systemic tendon/joint issues in other areas(presumably cipro), so if the lingering knee symptoms are mostly from that, then removing the Plica wouldn't even help. Plus the knees are honestly less of an issue currently than the ankle/groin stuff.
Anyway that's my story. Pretty sure I am having FQ symptoms, but no way to really know since there is no test and I didn't have any symptoms immediately while taking it. Also don't want to talk to my doctor about it since they'll think I'm crazy. I did see them about the joint/tendon issues, but didn't mention Cipro, and they had me go to a PT and Chiro for them, which doesn't really seem to be helping or making things worse, though since many of my symptoms are fairly varied day to day its sort of hard to tell one way or the other. I did mention Cipro to the PT, but they had only heard of it causing ruptures, but not just general pain, but weren't overly dismissive about it. They were pretty confused about why some of my symptoms are mostly worse when sitting/lying down though as they said that is very unusual.
I've also spent some time researching how close we are to being able to grow replacement tendons, ligaments, and cartilage in a lab, which seems fairly far out though cartilage seems possibly closer than tendons/ligaments, or robotic replacement limbs that work almost as well as real ones, which also seems pretty far out :(.
If I could go back in time, in addition to investing in bitcoin, I would obviously not take Cipro, and I'd probably also have switched from weekly volleyball to weekly yoga. But now I'm not sure if my tendons/joints can handle many of the yoga positions. And I would have stuck with regular squats with no jumping involved, maybe adding some wall sits in addition, and also just accepted that I wouldn't be able to keep up with my more athletic friends when skiing(which is why I was attempting risky plyometic exercises in the first place when I'm super uncoordinated), and been satisfied with just going on trips with them and chilling on the less tiring runs and meeting up for lunch.
TLDR: Took Cipro almost 4 years ago stupidly when I had a viral infection. No symptoms at the time, but have had many tendon/joint issues and a few other issues since then that I never had before, some of which have clear sports injury causes, but many of which do not, which is why I suspect Cipro is at least partially the cause for some/most of them. Am worried it's going to keep getting worse, and I may have full blown ankle and shoulder arthritis and maybe even hip too, in a few years despite currently only being 29. May consider becoming robocop in the future if technology exists.
submitted by prism1234 to floxies [link] [comments]

Tether has the potential to bring down the entire market

This potential fraud is related to Bitfinex and their USDT token (USD - Tether). Currently Bitfinex is the second largest exchange by volume (trading $800m daily at the time of writing).
The people behind Bitfinex are “printing” endless amount of these dollar tokens (currently $370m+) which are supposed to be backed up by real dollars. They refuse to be audited and prove whether these dollars exist. Information regarding the people behind Bitfinex/Tether is slowly disappearing from their website:
It is possible that Bitfinex are circulating their own token through their exchange to manipulate the order book and the price of Bitcoin. Just last year they were “hacked” to the tune of $60m in Bitcoin (which can be sold for real dollars).
Recently Bitfinex announced their withdrawal from the US market due to license difficulties, which is strange because smaller less-profitable exchanges have been able to get licenses. Surely the second biggest exchange by volume would want to be in the USA?
The average user perceives USDT to be the same as USD, which it is not. Bitfinex’s website is misleading as it lists their trading pairs in USD (when in fact you cannot actually deposit dollars). Bitcoin enthusiasts stand to lose of all their money in a Bernie Madoff style scam, if their funds are stored in USDT and/or on Bitfinex’s exchange. The collapse of the second largest exchange would likely crash the price of Bitcoin.
submitted by AnythingForSuccess to Buttcoin [link] [comments]

Slack log for Ark token's value proposition discussion 16-07-18

Please find below a log of the discussion we had in slack regarding the ark token's value proposition. Some of the community members who happen to be long term holders of ark feel that the ark token's value proposition isn't clearly communicated by the team so they asked about it. I'm posting the entire discussion it here to make a permanent record since slack wipes messages after a while.
arigard [7:21 PM]
Hey team, so I'm curious. Is there any update on a new white paper at all that was being mentioned? I've been holding Ark since it hit Bittrex and I personally don't really have a clear idea about how the token is going to work in the overall picture, or what really the direction is for the project once v2 is out. It feels like things have gone a bit flat recently, are there any updates on direction and what the plan is once V2 is live? Is there any idea about when it might go live? Or how the Ark token will fit into the economy (will it be a gas?). I see a lot of other projects i'm invested in coming up with very clear roadmaps/dates and direction about what they want to be and I still personally feel Ark's message is a little confused and hard to read especially for people who are not coders/developers.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:22 PM]
the roadmap is on the site, has nice presentations and other goodies
roks0n (deadlock) [7:23 PM]
@Matthew_DC mentioned a couple of days ago that he’s preparing several blog posts which should explain most of these @arigard
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:23 PM]
the Blog also goes into lots of v2 details
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:24 PM]
Hi everyone.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:24 PM]
Ark is Ark, not like Eth with gas, hence no gas.
Hey @Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) welcome back
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:24 PM]
Hey rob, hi Rok :slightly_smiling_face:
roks0n (deadlock) [7:25 PM]
Rob, I think he means how everything will be connected with ArkVM etc.
similar conversation as the one few days ago (edited)
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:25 PM]
It's been a while, but I was head on in the project, sorry for not showing more often.
arigard [7:25 PM]
Yeah my main question is really I still don't know what will give the actual Ark token value .
goldenpepe [7:25 PM]
we dont know how the arkvm will work
All we can do is wait
Doubled1c3 ( [7:26 PM]
uploaded and commented on this image: bucket.jpg
@Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe)
goldenpepe [7:26 PM]
We can make assumptions but that's all they'll be
roks0n (deadlock) [7:26 PM]
@arigard this was the discussion:
roks0n (deadlock)
definitely, I’m not blaming anyone :slightly_smiling_face: Was just curious if there were any developments in terms of the updated whitepaper because I was reading one of the threads on reddit from 6 months ago where it was mentioned you’re looking to hire someone write it up.
Posted in #generalJul 12th
arigard [7:26 PM]
And I kind of feel this is such a big elephant in the room for people in the long run.
roks0n (deadlock) [7:26 PM]
click on the link and read from that post on (edited)
arigard [7:26 PM]
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:27 PM]
I saw that there has been some drawbacks with the V2 ?
(Not sure if it's exact, I only came a few times and seemed to understand it was so)
goldenpepe [7:28 PM]
There are just some incompatibilities between v1 and v2 in devnet
which is why devnet is currently down
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:28 PM]
ArkVM may be unnecessary as more modern approaches to handling contracts are available, one of the main issue is having them be distributed just like the tokens.
goldenpepe [7:28 PM]
There's a community run v2-only devnet though #devnet_unofficial
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:28 PM]
it's more like drawback with v1
arigard [7:30 PM]
I mean I've seen a lot of stuff in that discussion discussed over the past year and there still seems to be no concrete answers coming out and that is a bit of worry to me personally. It makes it look like the team doesn't even know. I think most that know of Ark understand it wants to create an easy way to deploy blockchains and work as a platform and have some inoperability options. But the fundamentals of how that work right now seems to be up in the air. In other projects I know what gives those tokens value, but in Ark I don't, so it's hard for me as an investor to really sell to someone else the benefits of the token when there is a big question mark still on it.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:33 PM]
do you know that Ark Deployer has been available for quite some time?
arigard [7:34 PM]
Yes, that doesn't really answer any questions though.
mak [7:34 PM]
Ark deployer helps the main chain's business case somehow?
arigard [7:35 PM]
What gives Ark token actual value? Like what is the reason people need to buy and hold the Ark token? That is my question.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:36 PM]
@mak what you're saying is kinda like answering you can use a hammer when asked what a nail do.
arigard [7:36 PM]
You don't need to buy the Ark token to deploy a chain. You can just do it.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:36 PM]
I mean, the Ark Deployer doesn't answer what's the Ark.
mak [7:36 PM]
@Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) my point was directed towards rob's comment. I think you misunderstood it.
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:37 PM]
@mak My bad then. I apologize.
Blockhunter [7:38 PM]
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:38 PM]
" I think most that know of Ark understand it wants to create an easy way to deploy blockchains and work as a platform and have some inoperability options. But the fundamentals of how that work right now seems to be up in the air."
This is why I wrote that.. there is no mystery of how that works. You are mistaken or uninformed.
arkenstone [7:38 PM]
That's the problem here because team is programming orientated but there hasn't been alot done on business aspect of the token and marketing investor point big view
mak [7:38 PM]
That only explains the value of the ark codebase not the blockchain though
arigard [7:38 PM]
I think you seem to be trying to turn the argument in a seperate direction.
It's a simple question.
What gives the Ark token value.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:39 PM]
The market does. It's on 19 different exchanges.
arigard [7:39 PM]
Seems like you are being unhelpfully obtuse. I'll rephrase.
roks0n (deadlock) [7:39 PM]
so one thing that is clear to me is interoperability using ACES, where ARK is used as a “middleman” between two different chains, so if there’s high volume between those chains, it means the volume of ark increases as well .. what I’d like to know is how things will work with arkvm and how it will all work with sidechains (on eth, all the side chains will basically link back to the main chain which will be the one responsible for security afaik?)
arigard [7:39 PM]
What gives the Ark token value in the Ark ecosystem.
Blockhunter [7:40 PM]
Vote for Pedro he will make all your dreams come true
arigard [7:40 PM]
Eth is a gas, Waves is a gas. Ark is... what?
mak [7:40 PM]
ACES can work with any chains though. Doesn't have to be ark main chain. So I guess tomorrow persona can become the settlement layer for the Ark ecosystem and there's no incentive to stop it from happening.
arigard [7:40 PM]
roks0n (deadlock) [7:41 PM]
Mak, correct but if there are already lots of chains connected between ARK, it will be more appealing to link it through ARK directly
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:41 PM]
As I understand it, ACES could be using any given blockchain as the middle man...
roks0n (deadlock) [7:41 PM]
it doesn’t mean that it can’t be copied tho
arigard [7:41 PM]
But there are no chains connected through Ark atm
That have any real value anyway
roks0n (deadlock) [7:41 PM]
eth and btc are
arigard [7:41 PM]
And they can be connected through any Ark clone.
bangomatic [7:41 PM]
I'd love to hear the Ark team chime in on this discussion
arigard [7:42 PM]
So anyone can come along and make another chain that can instantly overtake Ark at this present time if there isn't a failsafe reason for Ark to be the defacto currency.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:42 PM] you can't keep saying things like this as if they are true.
That have any real value anyway
Posted in #generalToday at 7:41 PM
Blockhunter [7:42 PM]
Interoperability to the moon
mak [7:42 PM]
"it will be more appealing to link it through ARK directly"
Currently Ark is the only mature chain because it's been around longer but the moment persona or some other bridge chain gets listed on an exchange that dynamic is no longer there. So why would you prefer Ark over persona when that happens. That's the question as far as I understand it. (edited)
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:43 PM]
Persona has other goals, not duplicating Ark goals
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:43 PM]
@bangomatic Hi!
arigard [7:43 PM]
What current sidechain of Ark has real value/position in the crypto market? Persona?
bangomatic [7:43 PM]
hey @Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe)!
mak [7:43 PM]
The blockchain as a transaction medium doesn't care about secondary goals.
It still has all the capabilities that Ark has.
Colby [7:43 PM]
What has value right now? :thinking_face:
rob [ Ark Labs ] you can't keep saying things like this as if they are true.
Posted in #generalToday at 7:42 PM
arigard [7:43 PM]
Ark's ecosystem at present is not big enough to be a reason not to just take the tech and start your own.
To think otherwise is ludicrous.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:44 PM]
that's a fine opinion
Jarunik [7:44 PM]
it is harder than you think :slightly_smiling_face:
arigard [7:44 PM]
We aren't Eth with multi $100mn + start ups and even if we were, what's currently to stop one of those just overtaking Ark and leaving it behind?
Jarunik [7:45 PM]
i hope some ark clones get really sucessful to be honest :slightly_smiling_face:
Colby [7:45 PM]
Same here!
i hope some ark clones get really sucessful to be honest :slightly_smiling_face:
Posted in #generalToday at 7:45 PM
Blockhunter [7:45 PM]
mak [7:45 PM]
Same here but then there's no reason to hold Ark over something else
arigard [7:45 PM]
i hope so too if there is some reason for Ark to always be there at the top considering it's the Ark platform.
Colby [7:45 PM]
But the thing is that I am wondering, if ark clones get successful, what benefits does it give back to ark
Djenny Floro (Ark Tribe) [7:45 PM]
@Jarunik to create an ecosystem?
mak [7:45 PM]
Right now we have to consider Ark's value not the other bridge chains
arigard [7:45 PM]
But if there isn't a reason for Ark to exist at the top, why are we all holding it?
Colby [7:45 PM]
Haha I think we are all thinking the same :slightly_smiling_face:
arigard [7:45 PM]
It's a terrible business plan
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:46 PM]
the point of BridgeChains is to allow new projects with no access the market a path to them through Ark, and hence gain value.
Other blockchains connections are through ACES, such as BTC, LTC, ETH, and more coming..
Persona has a way to trade Ark <> Prs
arigard [7:47 PM]
What is to stop them from getting their own exchanges in the future and just using Ark as a stepping stone to becoming their own platform operator?
mak [7:47 PM]
Sure rob, but there's now 10 different projects doing the same and they are faster in development than the ark team is
arigard [7:47 PM]
Blockhunter [7:47 PM]
Ark is the Yoda of blockchain and they need a better catchphrase. Better than ark gives no dates or point click blockchain
arigard [7:48 PM]
This attitude seems horribly naive if this is the value proposition.
mak [7:48 PM]
All of us believe in the vision that Ark brought us but I personally am not sure if Ark is the best option to execute that vision in time
arigard [7:48 PM]
The issue is, we don't know what the value proposition is.
mak [7:48 PM]
Other projects seem much faster
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:48 PM]
if you are into speculation, which it seems you are, then on paper all of your projects with no code are better and have more value than Ark
arigard [7:48 PM]
That's not true at all. lol.
Matthew_DC [7:49 PM]
At the most base level, ARK is a common currency token that is essentially automatically compatible with every bridge chain that is built based on ARK and is optimized for transaction volume and throughput to avoid bloat of other mechanisms introduced by the other chains. That is at the most basic level. By holding the ARK token itself, you will be able to enact the functions of multiple bridged chains both issued by our team and others. You will also be able to utilize the ARK chain as a pegged token to many bridged chains but that process will be transparent to users as it will be done behind the scenes without the user needing to do any functions. To think that someone will fork the code and generate a more effective ARK main chain means you have no confidence in the ARK team as the primary developer of the technology itself. In this case, if we are not and someone pushes a better version of the network, then I would argue maybe they SHOULD be chosen. That is the point of a free and open market. Not to mention the potential for registering and providing snapshot hashes to the main ARK blockchain to provide added security measures to a bridge chain with lower security due to lower market share etc, those are just baseline reasons.
As I mentioned the other day, at face value, consider this. What brings value to Litecoin or Bitcoin or Doge? In essence, ARK is a more effective currency and base network than all of these aforementioned networks with all of the added benefits being added for additional use cases.
roks0n (deadlock) [7:50 PM]
will ark based chains be bridged via arkvm?
goldenpepe [7:50 PM]
They cant be
You'd need the VM on both sides
Matthew_DC [7:50 PM]
I am currently on a conference call and have a lot going on so I can't respond too much.
goldenpepe [7:50 PM]
You can use AIP11's new tx types to do a sort of escrow between chains though i think
mak [7:50 PM]
@Matthew_DC Are you saying that the bridgechains deployed by ark-deployer don't have the same features?
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:50 PM]
ArkVM is not for bridging chains
goldenpepe [7:51 PM]
It can be
Coinme [7:51 PM]
And ICO's that will join Ark in the future will use it for buying their token.
goldenpepe [7:51 PM]
But both chains will need to be running the VM
Matthew_DC [7:51 PM]
The ARK main chain will have specific methods of allowing token transfer and utilization between chains to include quasi-centralized methods through aces, decentralized aces based intermediary networks, Time locked transfers, among custom built smart contract like logic built into the core technology itself that doesn't make the network susceptible to the bloat and mis-utilization an vulnerabilities of full VM use.
goldenpepe [7:51 PM]
(which the main ark chain wont be)
mak [7:51 PM]
"ICO's that will join Ark in the future will use it for buying their token"
Or any other bridgechain that's listed on exchanges
@Matthew_DC So will all of the bridgechains, no? I could start an ACES node today for persona and it will have no difference from what you describe.
Matthew_DC [7:52 PM]
@mak no, we promised ARK would be open source and everything we build for the core ARK blockchain will be open source.
arigard [7:53 PM]
You can be open source and still protect your value..
Matthew_DC [7:54 PM]
The point of ARK from day 1 has been to create a better base layer blockchain technology and protocol for everyone everywhere to be able to use to create anything they can dream up.
The ARK token is a core payment layer for the ecosystem including any applications we build ourselves, sponsor, partner with, or support.
mak [7:54 PM]
It seems like the team's vision for Ark is as a software product only and there's no business plan for the main chain. Which is fine but it's not explained as such. (edited)
Blockhunter [7:55 PM]
Great to see such active discussions
goldenpepe [7:55 PM]
I think what Matt is trying to portray is this:
A single universal Ark Ecosystem wallet holding ARK that has a nice UI with a list of dapps in the ecosystem
You select a dapp
You send a tx from the wallet using Ark
----------------Everything below this line is transparent to the user-----------------
The Ark transaction has instructions in the smartbridge field
The Ark gets converted to dappCoin via an intermediary like ACES (trustful) or a trustless escrow smart contract
The intermediary received Ark and uses the dappCoin on the dapp chain to do whatever it is the user wanted to do using the instructions in the smartbridge field
The dappchain responds to the request to the intermediary
Intermediary sends an Ark tx with the results of the dapp computation/action in the smartbridge field
---------------Everything above this line is transparent to the user-------------------
After 8+ seconds, user's wallet shows them the result of their interaction with the dapp bridgechain
That's where the value of Ark will come from
The Ark coin will be a universal "omni-coin"
Matthew_DC [7:56 PM]
:this: This
goldenpepe [7:56 PM]
That will instantly shapeshift into bridgechain coins to interact with the bridgechain dapp
mak [7:58 PM]
I understand what your point is and I agree it will work but only as long as none of the bridge chains are on an exchange
when for example persona gets listed on binance the scenario changes
and now either chain can become the backbone of the ark ecosystem
arigard [7:58 PM]
Yes. We see that. But hypothetically what is to stop a bridged Ark chain from becoming bigger than Ark and then going on to become that gateway? At this point it just seems to be hopium that the Ark network will always be the one people look to. But in one year, or two, or five, it might not be the case. What is to stop Ark being just sidelined if another team come along with develop on what Ark has built and propel it forward and take the mantle?
goldenpepe [7:58 PM]
What you say will be a problem only if the utility of the dapp coin is greater than the utility of the ark omnicoin
Would you rather hold a coin that can do one thing and is forever tied to a single chain
arigard [7:59 PM]
But in other crypto's an app becoming sucessfull is a benefit. In Ark's network it could be a negative.
goldenpepe [7:59 PM]
Or would you rather hold a coin that can interact with that single chain and 3232523432 others
arigard [7:59 PM]
But why can't another coin become an omnicoin?
If there are no limitations against it
goldenpepe [7:59 PM]
Why can't another coin become ethereum?
mak [7:59 PM]
"What you say will be a problem only if the utility of the dapp coin is greater than the utility of the ark omnicoin"
Or if it gives out better staking returns etc like persona because of higher inflation rate
goldenpepe [7:59 PM]
if there are no limitations against it
You can literally go on AWS right now and deploy an ethereum clone chain
arigard [7:59 PM]
It can, but an ETH token can't oust ETH
That's the difference. We are giving people an easy route here.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [7:59 PM]
do you often think your children should not surpass you? Or is that the hope?
Matthew_DC [8:00 PM]
Well it's about security, trust, potential vulnerabilities due to added functionality, the ability of the bridgechain team to create interactions and focus on use cases for their token outside of their core use, etc.
But that's the point of open and free markets
goldenpepe [8:00 PM]
There is a solution to your concern @arigard
Matthew_DC [8:00 PM]
What is to stop someone from being better than Bitcoin?
arigard [8:01 PM]
I think all these strawman arguments are fun, but they still aren't adressing the issuel
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
Instead of having Ark Deployer literally cloning the ark codebase, have it be a turnkey solution to run a layer 2 chain
Matthew_DC [8:01 PM]
You could go fork Ethereum right now and have an exact copy of the capability of the main Eth chain.
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
bridgechain dapps can be "colored coins"
that are forever tied to the main chain
arigard [8:01 PM]
Yeah but you wouldn't have those businesses on the chain.
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
but that would introduce bloat
Matthew_DC [8:01 PM]
So you are saying the utility of Ethereum is adoption.
arigard [8:01 PM]
And those businesses won't have the potential to become the main ETH.
Matthew_DC [8:01 PM]
Which is the case for the value of any token.
goldenpepe [8:01 PM]
@arigard It sounds like you want ark to become Ethereum Plasma
arigard [8:02 PM]
I just want an answer.
Matthew_DC [8:02 PM]
How many companies are pulling their ERC20 tokens off of Ethereum because of the issues?
Colby [8:02 PM]
Yeah but correct me if im wrong
goldenpepe [8:02 PM]
There is no answer that will satisfy what you are asking
arigard [8:02 PM]
And i keep getting strawmanned.
Colby [8:02 PM]
Ethereum projects NEED eth for gas
Matthew_DC [8:02 PM]
We talk to people almost every day that are looking to leave Ethereum.
Colby [8:02 PM]
Ark is needed for?
arigard [8:02 PM]
Colby [8:02 PM]
This is all I am wondering, where does the ark coin fit into it
I love the idea
goldenpepe [8:02 PM]
@arigard You want ark-based coins to rely on Ark
The team wants the Ark chain to not be bloated
The solution to this is unironically ethereum plasma and sharding
Colby [8:02 PM]
but have been waiting for a while to know how the Ark coin will actually be used
goldenpepe [8:03 PM]
Shards in ethereum are basically "bridgechains"
arigard [8:03 PM]
Ok, and those teams might be big enough and clued up enough to eventually knock Ark from being the de facto omni coin. That's the worry.
If this is in fact the possibility.
Then it should be clear.
mak [8:03 PM]
"You could go fork Ethereum right now and have an exact copy of the capability of the main Eth chain."
@Matthew_DC Ethereum has value because all the dapps live on it which is not true for ark
arigard [8:03 PM]
Because as an investor it worries me, a lot.
I don't know where the value of Ark as an investment is 100% right now.
Jarunik [8:03 PM]
Ark is basically the inverse approach to Ethereum. Eth goes for big one-fits all first and tries to shard ... Ark is creating shards and then combines them
goldenpepe [8:03 PM]
There is no solution to what @arigard and @mak are saying right now
Literally no existing solution
Only proposals like sharding
arigard [8:04 PM]
And all this noise about defensiveness doesn't help. These are legit concerns.
Matthew_DC [8:04 PM]
When was it not clear that if a company comes along and builds a better more used product it could potentially take over market share?
That's how all free markets work.
You can't believe in open source and build and open source product without that risk.
arigard [8:04 PM]
But that isn't the same thing. Ark is literally building THE tools for people to then do that.
mak [8:04 PM]
@Matthew_DC Just to clarify I appreciate the work you guys are doing but I want to make an informed investment decision about holding the ark token
arigard [8:04 PM]
As a platform.
Jarunik [8:04 PM]
yes ... that is the idea how to grow
arigard [8:04 PM]
if you cloned Bitcoin back in the day you were a seperate currency.
Jarunik [8:04 PM]
provide good tools for others to create chains
arigard [8:04 PM]
This is a platform, its totally different.
And what we are discuswsing here is who runs that platform.
Matthew_DC [8:05 PM]
If someone launched an Ethereum chain right now and gained adoption there is a huge potential that all tokens decide to move their ERC20 tokens to the new chain and it becomes the new Ethereum and you have in essence lost all value because Ethereum is not capable of being used on the bridge chain as a currency.
ARK maintains it's value if for no other reason than the pegged value to any chain we personally create to include VM chain, token issuance chain, etc.
arigard [8:05 PM]
If it's built by Ark, does Ark always retain control? if not, why? What happens if Ark ends up building tools for a subsidary project that propels itself above them. Investors will just move to that coin.
Matthew_DC [8:05 PM]
Because it's an open decentralized system.
The problem is people don't actually believe in decentralization if it possibly harms their potential for monetary gain.
rob [ Ark Labs ] [8:06 PM]
we hope bridgechains get popular because that also means more for Ark in many ways.
arigard [8:06 PM]
You can be decentralized without being 100% altruistic. It's not mutually exclusive.
mak [8:06 PM]
@goldenpepe Since you guys claim that there's no solution for this how about I present one which @Matthew_DC can decide if it's useful or not. Make delegate voting for the ArkVM happen on the main chain. So anyone who wants to become a delegate for the VM needs to hold money on the main chain.
arigard [8:07 PM]
It just seems people are being dogmatic about this.
And if this isn't about investment. Why have an ICO?
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
Ethereum being the core chain for all ERC20 token based businesses centralizes the industry in a massive way. Not only is Ethereum itself centralized in the way it's mining structure was developed, but it also is centralized in that if the Ethereum network is compromised, thousands of companies assets and business are now compromised.
We don't believe that is the future.
mak [8:07 PM]
I'm not saying that this should be done for all sidechains. Just for the VM and it will be a special case.
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
We believe in a different business model.
That has been at the core of every description and explanation I have given from day 1.
arigard [8:07 PM]
Ok and that's fine, but my point is this should be made very clear if it's the case.
From the team officially.
goldenpepe [8:07 PM]
@mak now you're strawmanning me
Matthew_DC [8:07 PM]
Where is it not clear?
goldenpepe [8:08 PM]
I was addressing the fact that the idea that bridgechains shouldnt be independent and should be tied to Ark being in conflict with the Ark team's idea that the main chain should not be bloated with dapps
The only plausible solution to that right now
is Ethereum Plasma
yokoama (thefoundry Delegate) [8:09 PM]
mak [8:09 PM]
"We believe in a different business model."
I respect that. But it changes the ark's value proposition to just being a source of funding to the ark team and a means of speculation.
goldenpepe [8:09 PM]
Shards in ethereum are like bridgechains but the coins are all erc20s that rely on ethereum
Matthew_DC [8:09 PM]
People said ARK's DPoS mechanism would be a failure when we changed the voting structure because they said it wouldn't be secure enough. It has turned out to be massively secure compared to the centralized cartel run solutions of other DPoS chains. This is another fundamental issue where we believe we have a model that will work and will create value and thousands of use cases for the ARK token in a seamless way for the average user.
goldenpepe [8:09 PM]
and the shard blocks dont interfere or bloat up the "main" eth chain
mak [8:09 PM]
@goldenpepe I'm not suggesting deploying dapps on main chain. Just that the voting should take place there so there is always incentive to keep money on the main chain.
Matthew_DC [8:10 PM]
At no point did we say ARK was gas and have constantly made sure to outline the differences between ARK and Ethereum.
I believe the Eth model is flawed.
goldenpepe [8:11 PM]
The current ethereum model is flawed
If sharding works then it's going to solve a lot of its issues
(i dont hold any ethereum btw)
arigard [8:12 PM]
At no point have we actually had an updated white paper discussing this question in detail, clearly. It's not on the website and if it is it's buried somewhere in a blog post. The fact these discussions keep cropping up is proof of this.
nukacolaplease [8:12 PM]
I think we don't understand clearly what makes Ark important after the launch of the sidechains, Ark will be only an "exchange token"? The sidechain doesn't need Ark for operating
goldenpepe [8:12 PM]
+1 on needing a new whitepaper
Matthew_DC [8:12 PM]
replied to a thread:
This is a means of centralization of the network. Instead, by utilizing a form of pegged bridge chains, we can maintain a similar effect without creating centralization and reliance on 1 chain for others to properly function.
arkenstone [8:12 PM]
I think these things should be clearly written in a new WB and officially made public and promoted
goldenpepe [8:12 PM]
A new whitepaper would clear up so much FUD
pieface [8:13 PM]
Yeah I think a new WP is needed for sure
arigard [8:13 PM]
So don't start going "Oh everybody knows this, it's clear" Show me where on the front page of the website it tells you how the token mechanics will work in the ecosystem? It's not good it being on some powerpoint on a google drive, or hidden in comments in the slack.
mak [8:13 PM]
I though there wasn't going to be a new whitepaper.
arigard [8:13 PM]
It needs to be clear to investors how it works, exactly.
goldenpepe [8:13 PM]
I agree with arigard here
I only know what I know because I live on slack
Matthew_DC [8:13 PM]
The solutions are still in development and there are always opportunities to continue to adapt the model, that's why I have these conversations and ask for feedback regularly, but the core fundamental belief of how open and free decentralized markets should work most likely won't change.
arkenstone [8:13 PM]
Same here
goldenpepe [8:14 PM]
The vast majority of ark holders have no idea
they just bought bc of the cool red triangle
arigard [8:14 PM]
Stop playing cute, this is people's money you are asking for. So at least give them the benefit of being honest that there is no inherent business model reason why Ark will be necessary in the future.
And let them make their decisions.
roks0n (deadlock) [8:14 PM]
I agree, it took me months of following discussion on slack and digging around reddit to get information
arigard [8:14 PM]
With proper information.
mak [8:14 PM]
replied to a thread:
It's centralizing value onto one chain but doesn't bottleneck the ecosystem so I don't see anything being wrong with that.
Matthew_DC [8:15 PM]
replied to a thread:
I'm not arguing with you and I made a clear post here within the last 2 days that our website messaging is shit and needs completely redone.
If the ARK network is compromised or the consensus mechanism of the ARK main net is compromised then all subsequent networks reliant on that consensus would be compromised as well.
mad4thrash [8:15 PM]
In my opinion Ark's value come from (in the future) the fact that by holding one coin I can interact with every bridgechain plus any ACES services
Matthew_DC [8:16 PM]
So what I am saying is that we have to be cautious of these kinds of decisions and ensure that we aren't inadvertently creating attack vectors to take down partners, businesses, and other industries using the technology.
I'm sorry guys, I have to go, but I would love to continue this conversation on Reddit or here at a later time.
mak [8:16 PM]
"all subsequent networks reliant on that consensus would be compromised as well"
^ Correction: only the VM chain will be compromised since I'm not advocating that all bridgechains should vote on the main chain.
Matthew_DC [8:19 PM]
In an isolated case, if we can map it out and vet the concept, I'm more than happy to hear it out and have the conversation.
Solowatch [8:19 PM]
So I think we can all agree an updated Whitepaper is due
Matthew_DC [8:20 PM]
This is a community project and we are shaping pieces of it together as we continue to build. We have already made changes based on community feedback on many occasions.
So I would love to see someone post a proposal to reddit or even as an AIP at some point that we could discuss.
Jarunik [8:20 PM]
If you write a white paper it will be outdated soon :smile:
Solowatch [8:21 PM]
Well a V2 whitepaper shouldn’t be outdated soon
I don’t care about a V1 or V1.5 whitepaper lol
I want a whitepaper for V2 that’s clearly explaining all these concerns that the community has
arkenstone [8:22 PM]
Solowatch [8:23 PM]
I wrote a few questions down that I’ll post in here later today that @rob [ Ark Labs ] asked for. Please add to it if I missed anything once I do.
arkenstone [8:23 PM]
And I think now it's the time do it. Present it with full package on mainet launch.. (edited)
Solowatch [8:23 PM]
Or PM and I’ll add them before posting
mak [8:25 PM]
Anyways thanks for listening and responding @Matthew_DC. Some of us have been trying to discuss this with the ark team but didn't get much feedback until today.
arigard [8:25 PM]
Yeah +1
arkenstone [8:28 PM]
Alot of early investors are getting worried
submitted by moazzam2k to ArkEcosystem [link] [comments]

Most talked about cryptos in Japan: some results

Hey /cryptocurrency, I wrote a post the other day highlighting that surprisingly Japan accounted for ~60% of BTC trading volumes the other day. Not wanting to miss out on what such a big chunk of the market was talking about I decided to put my Japanese heritage to use and started looking at Japanese language discussions surrounding crypto.
After monitoring over 700 active cryptocurrency discussions daily over the last two weeks I have some results to share!
Note: this work was done as part of a larger research project so I can only share partial results.

Most discussed Tokens

Rank Token Ticker
1 BTC Bitcoin
2 ETH Ethereum
3 XRP Ripple
4 ADA Cardano
7 PAC PACcoin
9 LTC Litecoin
10 USDT Tether
As expected, ADA and NEM are way up there. Suprisingly MONA didn't make top 10. USDT seems to be discussed a lot too. Most interesting is seeing how high PAC is on that list, garnering more discussion than EOS and LTC.

Tokens with the highest growth in interest over the last 2 weeks

Adjusted for Market Cap
Rank Token Ticker
1 TRIG Triggers
2 PAC PACcoin
3 GAME GameCredits
4 EQL Equal
5 ZIL Zilliqa
I'll freely admit I'd never heard of any of these tokens until running this analysis. This does tell us that PAC being highly discussed is a relatively recent phenomenon though.

Other select insights

Disclosure: Of the tokens mentioned I currently hold varying amounts of; BTC, ETH, XRP, ADA, LTC, USDT, NEO, EOS. I do not hold any of the other tokens mentioned and I have no intention of purchasing them within the next 3 months
I'm pretty certain that running this analysis on a semi-regular basis will yield some useful insights over the long run. If the results of this analysis look good and there's enough demand I'll definitely keep it up. PM me if you're interested.
Hope this was interesting!
EDIT: It seems like a few people have been triggered by PAC. FWIW most of the discussion around it was negative and I suspect it's because an error on CMC had it listed as the 3rd largest token a few weeks ago that created a spike in interest. Bitcointalk thread for reference. A bit like how the BitGrail hack created a lot more mentions of Nano or BitConnect collapsing create a surge in discussion around it.
EDIT2: It's late in Asia. I'll try and answer some of the questions tomorrow. I'll publish a report down the line so if you're interested just drop your contact here.
submitted by sumren to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

I think my gf has been involved in some sort of Bit Coin ATM scam. Please HELP!

Ok. So. My girlfriend recently received an email for a job offer from a company claiming to be "Fannie Mae". Her job description basically said she'd be working from home and receiving a commission for doing international transfers for the company to avoid them paying international fees or something along those lines. My gf said she was given a contract and had to give her bank details, passport, ID, registration details, address etc. which seems extremely sketchy and a most recent photo of herself as well. She had to create a skype account to get in contact with her "Manager" who would never call her only use the messaging system, to receive details about the job and what she would be doing exactly.
For my gf's first "assignment" she received an email she was told to print off which was a Money Order from Australia Post of $535.00 AUD. Her manager told her she needed to take the printed document (the money order) to the post office and get the $535.00 in cash. My gf printed the money order, went to the nearest Post Office, had to show ID and all that.. they scanned the money order document, and gave her the $535.00 in cash. My gf then received a QR code via Skype chat, to use at a BitCoin ATM. She apparently was told to use the QR code at the ATM to deposit and transfer $500 too some "client". She only needed to enter a phone number into the ATM and it allowed her to scan the code, deposit $500 cash and transfer it. She was told to keep the $35 for herself. This sounds so bad already but it gets worse ..
For her second assignment she was told to do the exact same thing, but it was nearly $1000 AUD this time. Long story short when my gf went to the Post office to cash in the second money order, the lady at the counter told her it flagged when she scanned it through, I'm guessing as fraudulent or something .. and that she had been told to confiscate the documents and any paperwork.. At this point my girlfriend had kinda clued onto what was going on and realised she'd fucked up .. The lady at the post office was of no help when my girlfriend asked what was going on and if she was doing something wrong, she was extremely confused and a bit uneducated on this stuff as am I.. if anyone can give any information on what we should do or what the backlash might be here.. any feedback would be appreciated. Thank you!
submitted by Zachxry to Scams [link] [comments]

The XCOYNZ Details of our IEO

Our IEO in partnership with EXMARKETS is in three rounds, a week at a time with a week’s rest in between. The dates of the rounds as follows:
· Round 1–09/05/2019 to 16/05/2019
· Round 2–23/05/2019 to 30/05/2019
· Round 3–06/06/2019 to 13/06/2019
Full details can be found here:
The long-term business model of XCOYNZ is based on solid Tokenomics — a platform revolving around the issue and the continued growth of crypto tokens. Token value appreciation will be at the heart of all our business operations, user experience and pricing. This constitutes the rise of an ecosystem that will take cryptocurrency to the waiting masses. We aim to prioritise early stage investment with staggered development of our core platform components. These components are at the heart of what we envisage as being a powerful medium for the public to engage with the cryptocurrency market with minimal effort or research on their part. These are the Smart Algorithm Wallet (SAW), the Payment Gateway, X-Swift withdrawal and the Smart Card, all of which addresses the elements of cost, complexity and lack of commercial adoption into our tokenomics as explained below.
From our previous articles, you will probably know that the Smart Algorithm Wallet allows for the HODLING (holding of cryptocurrency for better days!) of multiple currencies. The key advantage of SAW is that it is driven by its’ own algorithms which analyses the market fluctuations of different currencies, enabling the investor to understand the dynamics of currencies such as Ethereum and Bitcoin over a period of weeks or months. This can then inform the holder whether to buy or sell without needing to do too much market observation or research. The payment gateway enables merchants to interface with cryptocurrency so that people can pay for goods and services in cryptocurrency of their choice. That would be potentially tapping into a revolution in the long run. X-Swift withdrawal enables the withdrawal of fiat cash from cryptocurrency and vice versa. The advantages of this are understandable in terms of convenience and ease. Lastly, the Smart Card enables potential payment for things like public transport using cryptocurrency wirelessly, underlining the inherent functionality and sophistication of our platform.
It is notable that the cryptocurrency market is still at the stage of nascent development or infancy, despite the waves it has made in the news prior to the market slowdown in 2018. It will gradually reach the levels it was previously at as cryptocurrency inches towards the stage of mass adoption. Speaking honestly, the public is still somewhat sceptical of this new monetary innovation. On the other hand, the great opportunity offered by cryptocurrency is that of profiting from a market that is poised for explosive, amazing growth as people begin to question the intrinsic value of fiat or paper money and how crypto can replace it.
XCOYNZ is among a rare breed of companies that is forward-looking, ambitious and clued up to the challenges of adapting a nascent market into something that is viable for mass adoption by the public. The future is bright and we invite you to take a look at our IEO starting on 9th May 2019.

webiste : twitter : facebook : telegram : linkedin :

bounty0x username : freimiller
submitted by freimiller to ico [link] [comments]

03-27 12:14 - '# Get $1000 Visa Gift Card! [[link]]' by /u/sallyleead removed from /r/Bitcoin within 326-336min


Get $1000 Visa Gift Card! [[link]2

Context Link
Go1dfish undelete link
unreddit undelete link
Author: sallyleead
1: give*romos*clu*/v**a/ 2: gi*e**v*sa/]^**
Unknown links are censored to prevent spreading illicit content.
submitted by removalbot to removalbot [link] [comments]

Tether has the potential to bring down the entire market

This potential fraud is related to Bitfinex and their USDT token (USD - Tether). Currently Bitfinex is the second largest exchange by volume (trading $800m daily at the time of writing).
The people behind Bitfinex are “printing” endless amount of these dollar tokens (currently $370m+) which are supposed to be backed up by real dollars. They refuse to be audited and prove whether these dollars exist. Information regarding the people behind Bitfinex/Tether is slowly disappearing from their website:
It is possible that Bitfinex are circulating their own token through their exchange to manipulate the order book and the price of Bitcoin. Just last year they were “hacked” to the tune of $60m in Bitcoin (which can be sold for real dollars).
Recently Bitfinex announced their withdrawal from the US market due to license difficulties, which is strange because smaller less-profitable exchanges have been able to get licenses. Surely the second biggest exchange by volume would want to be in the USA?
The average user perceives USDT to be the same as USD, which it is not. Bitfinex’s website is misleading as it lists their trading pairs in USD (when in fact you cannot actually deposit dollars). Bitcoin enthusiasts stand to lose of all their money in a Bernie Madoff style scam, if their funds are stored in USDT and/or on Bitfinex’s exchange. The collapse of the second largest exchange would likely crash the price of Bitcoin.
submitted by AnythingForSuccess to btc [link] [comments]

is BitcoinXT an altcoin (or a forkcoin)

I would like to introduce a very careful change in the choice of words into the discussion about the block size limit.
luke-jr clued me up to being more precise about words when we were discussing consensus - there was lots of debate about how that was defined. There still is. luke-jr pointed out that the correct term for what BitcoinXT was based on was a supermajority - he was and is correct.
theymos is saying that BitcoinXT will be an altcoin - I strongly disagree. His own words on this are here
As far as I can tell, all the hundreds of altcoins out there share a few attributes:
So - BitcoinXT only matches ONE of those descriptions - a (small) change to technical parameters - with of course unknown ramifications.
Since BitcoinXT shares the genesis block, and the entire transaction history of Bitcoin gets preserved, and the economic parameters remain unchanged.... it fails the common perception of the changes that match the description altcoin.
So what is it?
I suggest we use the term forkcoin - it is a coin which is definite a break from the current Bitcoin - a hard fork. Let us use a word that reflects that precise difference.
For theymos to suggest the change is an altcoin is either unsubtle, or disingenuous.
As a matter of precision, I would like to know how theymos feels about using a new and carefully defined term (forkcoin) rather than the inaccurate word altcoin
EDIT - spelling - thanks paleh0rse
EDIT - please stop down voting theymos in this thread- it hides his comments and all the child responses, and I explicitly want see and to review those. It is a form of censorship which is exactly what the people downvoting supposedly do not like.
EDIT - nice revision from rnicoll regarding the genesis block
EDIT - after thinking more about the hard/soft fork comments, any fork, hard or soft, can cause the issues under discussion
submitted by ronohara to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

FraudFinex's Tether Has Potential to Bring Down Entire Crypto Market

This potential fraud is related to Bitfinex and their USDT token (USD - Tether). Currently Bitfinex is the second largest exchange by volume (trading $800m daily at the time of writing).
The people behind Bitfinex are “printing” endless amount of these dollar tokens (currently $370m+) which are supposed to be backed up by real dollars. They refuse to be audited and prove whether these dollars exist. Information regarding the people behind Bitfinex/Tether is slowly disappearing from their website:
It is possible that Bitfinex are circulating their own token through their exchange to manipulate the order book and the price of Bitcoin. Just last year they were “hacked” to the tune of $60m in Bitcoin (which can be sold for real dollars).
Recently Bitfinex announced their withdrawal from the US market due to license difficulties, which is strange because smaller less-profitable exchanges have been able to get licenses. Surely the second biggest exchange by volume would want to be in the USA?
The average user perceives USDT to be the same as USD, which it is not. Bitfinex’s website is misleading as it lists their trading pairs in USD (when in fact you cannot actually deposit dollars). Bitcoin enthusiasts stand to lose of all their money in a Bernie Madoff style scam, if their funds are stored in USDT and/or on Bitfinex’s exchange. The collapse of the second largest exchange would likely crash the price of Bitcoin.
submitted by AnythingForSuccess to bitfinex [link] [comments]

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Bitcoin Basics Club - YouTube

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